Facebook chief Mark Zuckerberg says he has the tools to fix problems.
Published: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 7:54 PM
Last updated: Thu 22 Nov 2018, 10:08 PM
In an interview with CNN's Laurie Segall, Facebook chief Mark Zuckerberg says he has the tools to fix problems ailing the company that stem from fake news, data breaches and election meddling
Let's look at Russia. Did you and other leaders try to minimise Russia's role in spreading propaganda on the platform?
Here's what happened: In 2016, there was no doubt that we missed something really important, right? The Russian effort to try to have these coordinated information operations on Facebook and also the Internet more broadly was not something that we were expecting. Elections are al-ways a very high security event, and we were expecting certain kinds of cyber attacks. And we found them, right? The Russians were trying to hack into specific accounts and we told the people and we told the FBI and all that.
But we weren't on top of these coordinated information operations. So, we've spent a lot of the last couple of years now basically building up our systems and strengthening them to be able to address this. But we've been very focused on this and invested a lot in it. And anyone who wants to say that upon learning about this, we haven't been very focused on trying to both address it and also that we have- I think anyone who says that we haven't made a lot of progress, I just think that that's not right.
I think folks talk about transparency, though, you know, this idea that the former chief security officer wanted to publish a transparency paper and every mention of Russia was taken out. It was encouraged not to put Russia in the transparency paper. Do you regret not being more transparent at the time or not getting - you know, not being more vocal about it at the time?
You know, I wish that we understood the issues sooner, right? I wish we understood it before 2016, before the Russians tried to do these information operations in the first place.
Now, I do think sometimes people say, well, how did you not know this? And I think in some of these cases, it's a really big deal to come out and say that a nation-state is behind something. And before our company puts a stamp on something saying that, I want to be really sure that that's the case.
Quite a few revelations in this piece. One referenced is a decision to keep up a Trump post that many considered fell under the hate speech category. In part of this revelation, it said that one of the reasons your team decided to keep it up was because they were worried about a conservative backlash. I know Facebook is under a lot of pressure from the Democrats and Republicans, the government in general. Are leaders making content decisions based on appeasing political leaders?
No. Look, in a lot of these cases.
But did they in that situation?
No. They didn't. And I was involved in those conversations, and I think it's very important that people have the opportunity to hear from what political leaders are saying. So, you know, in those cases, I don't think that a lot of the content violated our policies
We also have a specific point in our policies where news-worthy content, we give a special deference to, which certainly someone who is a prominent politician going out and making a point fits into that. So, no, I think we did the right thing there.
So, it wasn't accurate, though, that part of the reason they didn't take down the post was because there was concern over a conservative backlash?
No, that was certainly not any part of the conversation that I had.
I was on the reporter call where you repeatedly denied that you knew anything about hiring this opposition group PR firm. Can you state it for the record? Did you know anything about this?
Well, I - like I said on the call, you know, I learned about this when I read the report as well. But I'm not so sure that that's the most important point. I think your question is right that this is - I do run the company. I am responsible for everything that happens here. I don't think that this point was about a specific PR firm. It was about how we act, right? And that's why it's - I think it's important not just what we're doing in relation to this one firm, but that we go through and look at all the different PR firms and folks who we work with and make sure that we're operating in the way that we want to.
You know, the PR firm was founded by a Republican political strategist, and it launched a campaign linking Facebook critics to George Soros. This is a common tactic used by anti-Semitic and alt-right groups. That's why I think people were so shocked when they found out about this. I think that was one of the parts of the report that a lot of folks had real questions about. Does that strike you as stooping low?
Yes. I wasn't particularly happy about that piece of it, and that certainly is a big part of what I - when I read about this, what made me want to look into this more deeply. So, the intention here is never to attack an individual.
I mean, but in this particular scenario, launching - you know, it's not common for tech companies to necessarily hire these types of firms. And many would argue it's a way of spreading the same type of conspiracy theories that Facebook has worked so hard in the last couple of years to get on top of.
Yes. Look, from the review that I've done so far, it doesn't appear that anything that the group said was untrue as far as we can tell.
There are a lot of questions about Sheryl Sandberg's role in the latest controversy. Can you definitely say Sheryl will stay in her same role?
Yes. Look, Sheryl is a really important part of this company and is leading a lot of the efforts to address a lot of the biggest efforts that - the biggest issues that we have. And she's been an important partner for me for 10 years. And, you know, I'm really proud of the work that we've done together. And I hope that we work together for decades more to come.
You are CEO and chairman of the Facebook. That's an extraordinary amount of power given that you rule a kingdom of 2 billion people digitally, essentially. Shouldn't your power be checked?
You know, I always talk about how we need to partner with governments around the world, and other companies and non-profits and other sectors. So, yes, I don't think fundamentally we're going to be able to address these issues by ourselves.
So, you're not stepping down as chairman?
That's not the plan.
That's not the plan. Would anything change that?
I mean, in fact, eventually, over time. I mean, I'm not going to - I'm not going to be doing this forever, but I certainly - I'm not currently thinking that that makes sense.
This idea of transparency is important and we keep hearing it. But then you have these reports coming out that say something otherwise. So, how do you ensure that you do win back public trust? I think this is an incredibly pivotal point for the company, and for you as a leader, because it certainly seems over the last year, we haven't stopped hearing about, you know, one thing after the next that shows otherwise that the company hasn't been as transparent.
Yes. Well, look, there are always going to be issues, but if you're serving a community of more than 2 billion people, there's going to be someone who is posting something that is - that is problematic that gets through the systems that we have in place, no matter how advanced the systems are. And I think, by and large, a lot of the criticism around the biggest issues has been fair, but I do think that if we're going to be real, there is this bigger picture as well, which is that we have a different world view than some of the folks who are covering this. And...
But if we've given the world a voice, look at what's happened in the last year. You've had elections in the last year. Elections manipulated. Hate speech has gone viral and turned offline. It certainly seems like this mission has been accomplished in many ways and there's a whole new set of problems that, perhaps, you guys didn't foresee. And now, we're in a very complicated place where there's not an easy solution.
Yes. There's - these are complex issues that you can't fix. You manage them on an ongoing basis.
Given what you know now, can Facebook effectively be a part of politics and can you guarantee that you can control it?
Well, I think it's a positive force because it gives more people a voice.
But it's also given nation states a voice, too, in our democratic process.
And that part needs to be managed really carefully, but I mean
You're confident that you guys can do that?
With the right support from governments and partnerships, and a ton of investment on an ongoing basis, I think we can stay ahead of these sophisticated threats.
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